[00:00:00] Kevin Breitner: All right, hey there Ontario landlords, welcome to another episode, uh, for you, right? Uh, today we’re going to have some fun. We’re not going to. Dive into any specific topic, but we are going to talk about some scenarios Some interesting situations some probably not so common things, but something that’s often who would know what to do Like if a tenant were to pass away or if [00:00:30] they’re denying you entry Or a couple things we’re going to talk about as to what can happen or what should go on And what your obligations are rights as the landlord in these situations Uh, so to, to join me in this conversation today, uh, my friend, the smart one, and all this, uh, Mr.

Robert Di Lisi from Stonegate Legal Services. How are you doing today?

[00:00:52] Rob Di Lisi: Good, Kevin. Thanks for having me on the podcast again. I look forward to helping

[00:00:56] Kevin Breitner: you guys out. Yeah, no, uh, I enjoy your insight, your [00:01:00] expertise, uh, and experience. And, uh, I think this is going to be a lot of fun to hear. Uh, what we have to do here are some of these, um, interesting things that some landlords have to deal with or, or navigate through these waters.

So, um, if, uh, if you want to get started, I’ll start with the first scenario. Sure. All right. So here we go. So let’s say a tenant hasn’t been there in months or so it seems to the landlord. Uh, they haven’t paid rent in those same months that, uh, they feel like they [00:01:30] haven’t been there. The landlord was told by somebody else that she believes that they’re in the hospital.

Okay. Cool. Uh, the landlord hasn’t heard from her in months, longer than what she hasn’t been paid rent either. They weren’t in constant communication. Um, she feels like she has abandoned the house, but wants to know, would an eviction be what she has to do? Or is there an easier way? All she wants to do is turn around and rent this house back out.

[00:01:57] Rob Di Lisi: Okay. So here’s the thing is that because [00:02:00] someone thinks that it’s abandonment doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily abandonment. So let me just go on like completely off the cliff. What if she’s in Europe right now, vacationing and she’s just not available. So just because you hear rumors that she’s in the hospital or wherever she is, it doesn’t mean that her tenancy is coming to an end.

It doesn’t mean that she’s abandoned. So if you have a non payment situation, that would probably be the best way to commence. Which is giving the N4, and then [00:02:30] waiting the 14 days, and then waiting to go to the board. From now until you get to the board, hopefully, you will be able to get a hold of someone, or the tenant, and maybe she is in the hospital, I don’t know.

And remember, that gives you about 4 to 6 months by the time you get to the board. So you can’t just claim abandonment. I hear this all the time, where they’re not there anymore. How do you know they’re not there? So something you can also do, is give a 24 hours notice. That would be a smart thing to do and go into the [00:03:00] property, take pictures, take video, but the only thing is, is that you kind of need their, their permission to do that.

The only reason why I’m saying you should do that is that if they have stuff there, obviously they have not left. So something else is happening. So you might need to investigate a little more, but in this situation, I would commence with the N4.

[00:03:18] Kevin Breitner: Okay. Um, is there a way to prove abandonment or is that simply something that is, like you said, over time, they’d have to wait to get all the way to, to the hearing and abort.

[00:03:28] Rob Di Lisi: So you can do [00:03:30] a hearing for abandonment, you can file with the board, but it’s the board that will make that determination based on what evidence you submit. That’s why pictures, video, testimony from other people, like what’s going on? Like, I don’t want to go too rash, but what if she passed away in the hospital and we don’t even know what’s going on?

All right, but you don’t want to arbitrarily make that decision and then find out that nothing was wrong with her and you threw out all her stuff.

[00:03:59] Kevin Breitner: So, uh, [00:04:00] you know what, uh, a tenant passing away is another scenario that, uh, that I’ve got here for us. So why don’t we jump right into that one? Um, and there’s two different ways that this could happen.

Let’s just talk about first a tenant passing away in the property. Uh, you don’t find out until days or whatever later, a single person, right? Uh, that doesn’t have much family or friends have passed away now. So I’ve heard of stories of sadly they’ve been there for a couple of days, uh, until they’re found and I figured out what’s going on.

What would happen [00:04:30] there? What is the dilemma?

[00:04:33] Rob Di Lisi: If it’s okay, I’m going to give a personal story because I actually, um, experienced this myself. So I had a tenant that I saw on the Friday. And he, you know, waved to me and he said, um, I don’t have much left to go. And, uh, thank you for being a great landlord.

And I don’t know what’s going to happen. And I was like, no, Carl, you’re going to be just fine. Well, over the weekend, the tenant beside [00:05:00] this tenant was complaining of a smell. She thought it was garbage. So on the Monday, when we went back to the building, I could hear music playing or the, sorry, the TV playing water running.

And I was knocking on the door and there was a lady outside coming crying, saying, you know, I think something happened to Carl. We need to go into the unit. When I opened the door, there was a [00:05:30] gust of smell. I don’t know if you’ve ever smelt a dead body, but it’s something you will never forget. And I found Carl on the, on the couch.

And then there’s a procedure that should be followed is that, um, do not touch the body. Obviously you should call the police. So what happened is the police came, fire department came, the, Uh, there was private investors that came because they want to make sure it wasn’t a murder and then the corner and the ambulance and the fire [00:06:00] department, everyone came, believe it or not.

So I believe there was like seven of them. It was the corner that made the final decision that said it wasn’t a murder or anything like that. So now the question is what happens? Well, the next of kin. Or family will be notified to let them know this person has passed away. There’s belongings here. They have 30 days to remove their belongings.

If they don’t, then the landlord can dispose of their [00:06:30] stuff at any time after the 30 days. So usually you have to let the next of kin or family. The problem is what if there is no next of family? Well, it’s still 30 days. After the 30 days, you can dispose of their belongings, but I would always say, try to find out a next of kin.

And that’s why my rental applications I’ll put in case of emergencies or someone else to contact.

[00:06:54] Kevin Breitner: What happens to their, um, their last month’s deposit or anything like that in that case, if someone was, [00:07:00] uh, from next of kin to then be requesting.

[00:07:04] Rob Di Lisi: Yeah, they can request it. They can request it. So it, remember last month’s rent can only be used for last month’s rent.

So if they paid, let’s say November 1st, cause today’s November 20th, and then they have a last month’s rent on file, then the nice thing to do is to give the money back.

[00:07:21] Kevin Breitner: Yeah. No, just, uh, interesting how that all, uh, would have played out, right? If they paid November rent and they passed away in the month of November, December, then would become their last month’s [00:07:30] rent, even though they’re technically not able to give 60 days notice.

That’s correct. It would just come that way and, uh, yeah, okay. Let’s, uh, let’s jump to one that, uh, sadly happens, uh, too often. A tenant refusing entry, um, to any unit, let’s say just in a condo. We’re looking there to do some maintenance. Um, We had, uh, here, here’s a, actually let’s do this. We had a tenant, uh, who was denying entry, uh, after [00:08:00] a storm and we needed to repair some of the inside of the units, um, where we had contractors show up and they didn’t let them in to do the work after it was agreed to and everything like that.

So how do we, uh, and then he was ended up. Um, calling the police. If anybody were to enter, obviously we didn’t enter without their permission, but, uh, yeah, let’s break down that type of scenario when somebody is.

[00:08:26] Rob Di Lisi: Yeah, this is very, very common. So please note [00:08:30] that notice must be given. I’m not talking about an email or a text message.

You’re supposed to post it to the door. Okay. Uh, now if you have a good relationship with the tenant and you do an email exchange or a text message exchange, that’s fine. If they’re refusing entry for maintenance purposes, the landlord should be documenting the day, the time. They should have it all documented because later on, if it becomes a [00:09:00] hearing, you need this evidence to show that you tried to mitigate your damages.

Now in regards to going in, I’m going to give you two scenarios and it depends on a few things is technically they are supposed to let you in, but if they don’t let you in, You can try to call the police and you request a peace officer to escort you into the property, depending on the police, depending on the department, they may or may not, [00:09:30] uh, obliged to your request.

Okay. Um, police, they’ll tell you this is beyond our jurisdiction. We’re here to keep the peace. This is beyond what we do. We do not want to get involved. So depending on what cop you talk to, um, you should always be talking to the desk sergeant of the precinct, not a police officer. The desk sergeant usually knows more than the average police.

Now that’s option. Number one, option. Number two. The landlord has the right [00:10:00] to file an N5 for not allowing entry. This also works for showings as well, if you’re trying to sell the property. The problem is, is that on an N5, it’s a behavioral application, and you’re still looking at about four to six months to get to the board, and then to get the order mailed is going to take, let’s say, another 30 to 60 days.

So this is going to be a long process and usually not always, there’s not always going to be an enforcement on [00:10:30] an eviction because it’s a behavioral application. It’s usually a slap on the wrist, which doesn’t do the landlord any good.

[00:10:38] Kevin Breitner: Okay. So let’s, uh, let’s talk about another one that’s, that’s very, very common here and that’s, uh, pets.

We have on our leases, it says no pets, but now we were told, uh, we noticed that, uh, our tenants have a little puppy or a little cat. How does that work? What can we do?

[00:10:57] Rob Di Lisi: So here’s the thing is, is that, um, [00:11:00] no pets is actually goes against the legislation, so you can put it in your contract. The question is, is that if they bring in a pet, um, what can you do?

Can you evict them? The answer is no. Okay. Uh, assuming that this is not a dangerous pet, so it’s not like a snake or like some kind of venomous, uh, Pet that it’s it’s a legal pet. I guess you can say, um, the only caveat to that would be Is that [00:11:30] let’s say for example, you’re renting a house and there’s a basement and you have allergies and you’ve told the tenant, look, the reason why I’m asking for no pets is because my child or myself have allergies towards dogs, cats, whatever the case is.

And I’m requesting that there’s no pets allowed, even though it goes against the legislation. This is something that would be able to be argued in a board. Because of if you have a medical [00:12:00] condition and that also goes with smoking by the way. So a lot of times, uh, if you’re sharing like a basement and the main floor and there’s an allergy to, uh, cigarettes or whatever the case is, as long as you can show that you can, you can fight that in the board.

Okay. Other than that, you can re you can ask if they have pets in the beginning, but if they bring pets in afterwards, the only time that It would be effective would be in a condo is if it goes beyond the weight limits of [00:12:30] the guidelines. So usually for a condominium, I believe it’s 25 pounds, if I’m not mistaken, which is like a small dog.

[00:12:37] Kevin Breitner: Every condo is different compared to their condo board. I’ve seen some that say no dogs. I’ve seen some that say they have a weight limit. Whether that’s 25 pounds, 50 pounds, uh, some say no more than one dog, um, or anything like that. So anyways, that is definitely specific per condo and their condominium board rules.

But like you said, if you were renting out a basement, would that only [00:13:00] matter if you were upstairs? What if you had a, a fourplex, for example, and one of your tenants was allergic to dogs and now someone got a dog? Uh, same thing with apply. I’m going to

[00:13:10] Rob Di Lisi: say, I’m going to say no, only because that tenant can change so you can try to fight it in the board.

But again, it does go against the legislation,

[00:13:19] Kevin Breitner: so it matters only if you are the landlord living upstairs with an allergy, not if you had a multifamily unit.

[00:13:26] Rob Di Lisi: Yeah, I would say so. Yes.

[00:13:29] Kevin Breitner: That’s interesting. [00:13:30]

[00:13:30] Rob Di Lisi: And also just the last thing in regards to the condominium, even if they say no pets allowed and someone brings in a dog because it’s a care dog, like support animal, someone being Yeah.

Like a support animal, then you’re now talking about human rights issues. Okay. So there could be exceptions. Sometimes,

[00:13:48] Kevin Breitner: uh, uh, in my mom’s condo, they have one dog allowed and it is a service dog, um, for that exact reason, but they don’t allow anybody else to have any dogs, any pets. And, uh, a maximum [00:14:00] of two cats per unit is what it says in their rules.

So they had definitely all break it all down. Um, so there, we talked about the no pets. What about, uh, adding a person to a lease, whether it be a roommate or a girlfriend or something like that, or, um, just bringing in more people when the lease was only made out to Frank. And now all of a sudden there’s Frank and Bill living there or Frank and Susan.

[00:14:21] Rob Di Lisi: So just to clarify you, cause you said, if I add someone to the lease, that’s a little different. So I think what you’re trying to say is that, let’s say, for example, I have two [00:14:30] people on a lease and it’s boyfriend and girlfriend. Okay. They are renting out a three bedroom house, argumentally speaking, and they’re living in the master bedroom, but their mother is coming from, I don’t know, Europe to live with them.

And now the father’s come and maybe a brother’s lived in the unit or the house. So there is nothing wrong with that. So remember when you rent out a property, you’re renting out the property, not the amount of occupants. So on a three bedroom house, I’m [00:15:00] just going to say that you could probably be allowed six to seven, maybe even eight people.

You would have to check this city bylaws in regards to how many people can occupy. Occupy the property. It’s usually by square footage. So the thing that a lot of landlords are concerned about is that there’s more than who’s on the lease. But that’s perfectly legal because these people are guests, occupants, or roommates.

Even if they want to pay rent, the main thing is that the [00:15:30] landlord should never be receiving rent from any occupant, roommate, or tenant. In the property, it should only be from the tenant, because if you collect money from anyone other than the tenant, and it shows that you’ve accept rent from anyone other than the tenant, they can become implied tenancy, which means they are now tenants.

The problem with that is if you ever have to do a notice and you don’t have their proper names, you have to remember these notices have to be 100 [00:16:00] percent accurate. So if it goes to the board and you don’t have all the tenants names on there correctly, the board may dismiss the application.

[00:16:09] Kevin Breitner: And that would just be all the tenants that are on the original lease.

[00:16:14] Rob Di Lisi: Correct. But if you start collecting money from anyone other than who’s on the lease, the argument will be is that this person has now accepted me as a tenant. And that would be argued at the board. So the easy way to do it is never collect money from anyone other than your tenant. [00:16:30]

[00:16:31] Kevin Breitner: So what about, um, same situation, but again, let’s go to multi family.

Um, they’ve added in more people, but They were having, uh, it’s a duplex up and down, not separately metered. Uh, so they are, uh, dividing and splitting up utilities on a percentage basis between upper and lower tenant. Um, but now one of the tenants has added in three more adults and is using more water and potentially more electricity.

Is there a way that that can be adjusted or changed, [00:17:00] um, to make it then fair again for both, uh, tenants?

[00:17:04] Rob Di Lisi: No. So again, the only thing you can do is in regards to bylaws. So if there’s one person and now there’s four people in a basement apartment. How many people are allowed to live there but in regards to the bills, unfortunately not

[00:17:17] Kevin Breitner: as it was written on the lease is How it stays correct.

[00:17:21] Rob Di Lisi: That’s

[00:17:21] Kevin Breitner: correct with uh a lot of things um, but then it’s Some things like pets like you said i’ve like I said

[00:17:28] Rob Di Lisi: Can I tell a quick horror story kevin? [00:17:30] No, let’s

[00:17:30] Kevin Breitner: uh, let’s end this So

[00:17:32] Rob Di Lisi: I I experienced this myself where we had a landlord That had a tenant that was one person living in the basement All utilities were included They got into an argument.

The tenant, what they did was invited their friends every night to do their laundry at this house. So they were using their water, electricity, the machine was being used more than [00:18:00] what it should have been because the guests were coming over and just using their machine, the water, because the electricity, the water was all included.

So just, just realize that I don’t like it when landlords put it in their own name. I prefer, now sometimes you don’t have a choice, but I prefer that you put it in the tenant’s name. Now depending on the municipalities, I just talked to someone yesterday, depending on the municipalities, even if you put it in the tenant’s name, if they skip out, they’ll put it [00:18:30] on your property taxes.

[00:18:31] Kevin Breitner: Water for sure.

[00:18:33] Rob Di Lisi: Water for sure. Yes. But this one was electricity, which boggled my mind. I didn’t understand that. So I don’t know if it was accurate, but she’s, she was telling me that there was a 7, 000 bill and they put it on the tax. Wow.

[00:18:46] Kevin Breitner: Well, you know, uh, people want to make sure they’re getting their money.

Right. And, uh, it always seems to fall back to the landlord no matter what’s going on. Um, which is one of these unfair things. Yeah. That goes on in this world how the scale seems to be balanced a little bit [00:19:00] more towards the tenant in this province of ontario Uh, but that is a topic for another day Uh, because there is ways hopefully in the future that we can figure out how to get these scales a little more balanced Uh and fix some of these things so that it is Again, fair for both sides and everybody involved, but again, that is a long conversation, something that we will dive into and we’ll get into another episode.

I hope, uh, you’ve found this informative, uh, in case you’re ever in a simple or similar [00:19:30] situation, sorry, to, uh, to what’s going on here. But if anything ever comes up and you’re not sure what to do, you can always reach out to myself. Uh, because I’m then going to in turn reach out to Mr. Rob Delicia and his team at Stonegate Legal Services.

Uh, you can connect with them as well. Um, they are online everywhere, socially, website. Um, and they can definitely, uh, help you with whatever you’re going through, landlord or tenant issues. Thanks so much for your time. As always, Rob, I appreciate it. And, uh, sounds good, Kevin. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks guys.

Bye for now. [00:20:00]

[00:20:01] Narrator: Please remember while we are professionals, this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. The advice shared may not apply to your unique situation. Always seek personalized advice from a qualified professional before making any investment decisions.

[00:20:16] Kevin Breitner: Hey everybody, thanks so much for joining us this week.

I hope you enjoyed the episode. If you’re finding it informative and useful, make sure to like, subscribe, uh, share with a friend so that we can keep getting the information out there to Ontario landlords [00:20:30] and, uh, keep on joining us. We’ll see you next time.