Episode 14 transcript

Kevin Breitner (00:09.25)
Hi everybody, welcome for another episode here for Ontario Landlords where today we’re going to break down and explain what can actually be enforced of the clauses and everything that people put into a lease. We get this asked by a lot of our new landlords all the time. They talk about things that they want to have their tenants be responsible for. know, the most common one is grass cutting and snow removal that we deal with, right? They say, well, I’m going to give them a lawn mower and I’m going to give them a shovel and we want to…

get them to do that and then following out later on and find out some other things about it. anyways, want to break all these things down with you and breaking and discuss the different things in the lease that we can add and that can be enforced and the things that people add that really might not be able to be enforced at the end of the day. joining us today, our good friend and smart man when it comes to all this, Mr. Robert DeLisi from Stonegate Legal Services. How you doing today?

Good, Kevin, thank you for having me on. It’s a pleasure to help you and your audience.

Yeah, thanks. I appreciate the knowledge, experience and expertise. Like I said, let’s start with what we were talking about there. We had a landlord the other day that was saying they wanted to get their tenant to take care of the snow removal and the grass per se. wanted me to write that in a clause in the lease. Can that be enforced? What happens there? How do we do about doing that?

Okay, so this is a very common question that we hear. So what you need to understand is that what you have in your contract and what you have in the Residential Tenancies Act, which is legislation, are two separate things. So legally speaking, if you put a clause in the contract that says the tenant is responsible, that’s fine until the tenant says, no longer want to do it. In accordance to section 20 of the Residential Tenancies Act,

Rob Di Lisi (02:04.222)
Any upkeep and repair is of the duty of the landlord, not the tenant. The only way that you should be doing this is actually contracting out to the tenant, just like you would a third party, a separate agreement saying that you are going to be responsible for the grass cutting snow removal, but that should be a separate contract. And obviously there should be some monetary compensation. However, if the tenant stops doing

their job, what would you usually do? You would fire that person, find someone else, but remember under section 20, it still falls under the responsibility of the landlord. In fact, just to press on this point, if the city ever sends out a fine for the grass not being cut, it goes to the landlord, not to the tenant, because it’s the landlord’s property. Okay, so I hope that helps.

Yeah, no that’s definitely exactly what we’re explaining to our landlords as well, right? We want them to do it. For example, we have a multiplex where we have a gentleman there who helps with the garbage. We don’t have them under contract to do so, but we send them a $25 gift card every month that he gets to use for whatever he’s looking to do, right? It’s a great little agreement from us and so far it’s working. And like you said, I guess at some point he just has to say

That’s fine.

Kevin Breitner (03:27.84)
I don’t want to do it anymore and then we’d have to figure out something else. Another one that we get asked a lot about is deposits, right? Especially right now with people qualifying their tenants and screening them and being unsure. Maybe it’s a new immigrant to the country and we don’t have credit history. So people are asking to collect more deposit or last month’s rent instead of just one month, they want three months last month’s and you know, to do that.

How does that all break down legally? Can we do that? Can we accept it?

So here’s the thing, so that’s another thing that we hear a lot of real estate agents asking for three months, six months, even one year in advance. Please note that any deposits that are not first and last month’s rent is considered an illegal deposit. Now, with that being said, if the tenant voluntarily says, look, I know that one of the judging factors is that I don’t have credit, however, I can give one year upfront and they agree upon it,

That’s fine, but if the tenant changes their mind or later on they find out that that’s an illegal deposit, they can ask for that money to be returned to the tenant. Now, something that I always tell people is I don’t know, like just for my own units, I don’t only look at credit. I look at, you know, their, what kind of job they’re doing, are they employed? I like to meet them just to see the kind of people that they are. Cause a lot of times it goes on gut feeling.

If you just focus on getting three, six, nine, 12 months in advance, remember after the first year goes month to month anyways. So having that one year covered is great, but what about after the one year? If they stop paying rent, you’re in the same position as if you were taking on a tenant that is not qualified.

Kevin Breitner (05:19.744)
Yes, and I I like the way you said that credit is just one piece of the puzzle, right? You have to look at the whole story for what people are going through unfortunately, sometimes people’s credit can be diminished because of a past relationship that they’re coming out of or whatever and There’s a reason they’re tenants, right? There’s a reason they’re renting and not owning property right now And it’s all different things. So it’s gut feeling. It’s meeting them getting to know them understanding That’s definitely one of our last determinators

Determining factors that we use with our landlords as well if we’re stuck between one and two it’s like hey Why don’t you guys have a conversation with each and then you guys can figure which one you feel more comfortable with because we’re good with both Right and everything is kind of similar. I think that’s a great thing to be mentioning there So a legal deposit for rent, but what about let’s say They have a dog Kevin. I don’t know what we do there Why don’t we say give them $500 pet deposit so if they ruin my floors or ruin my baseboards or Mike?

Screen door at the front by punching through it. I can use that $500 to fix it. Can we ask that for a deposit?

No, you cannot. So remember any deposits other than first and last month’s rent is an illegal deposit. I’ve seen pet deposits. I’ve seen light bulb deposits. I’ve seen damaged deposits. I’ve seen kid deposits, believe it or not, because they have kids and that there’s a risk of more wear and tear. Unfortunately, these are all illegal clauses. So if you put them in a contract, remember if both parties agree, you don’t have a problem.

The problem is, that if the tenant does talk to a legal representative or they find out later on that this is illegal, they can get a pet, they can demand that money back with a application to the board and they will get it. It’s not a question of if they get it, they will get it back. It’s an illegal deposit.

Kevin Breitner (07:09.902)
So what about keys for example or condo fobs garage door opener stuff like that I’ve been asked to hold back $250 in a in key and fob deposit and I know they’re more expensive than getting a key cut down a Canadian tire for a front door of a house Yeah, they’re 50 bucks or so. Can we? How I guess how does that break down? Well, I’ll let you explain what they can do

For a house, I just did one now because of one of my own properties, the key was $10.15. So for a house, I don’t see why you’d be asking for $250. The problem with a condo is that they’re laser engraved keys and then there’s a fob and some of the older ones also have a garage door opener. However, if you look at the act, it doesn’t refer to any fobs, garage door openers. It only says the cost.

of replacing the key. Just from my experience of dealing with condominiums, it does not cost $250 to replace a key at a condominium. So technically speaking, you can only charge the cost of replacing the key, not the fob, not the garage door opener. Now, a lot of people say, well, that’s not fair. I have to incur the cost. Well, I hate to tell you this, but when you are a landlord, you are a real estate investor.

You have to deal with expenses and income, good times and bad times. This is just the cost of doing business. Unfortunate.

I’m going to circle back. mentioned about kids coming into the apartment, a kid deposit. I’ve never been asked for a kid deposit, but I did have a duplex where we had tenants upstairs and a tenant moving in downstairs. We were filling the basement tenant. They agreed to a 60 40 split on their utilities. That was their agreement. We’re filling it all out. Everything was signed like that on the lease. The gentleman that we leased to had one child a month later.

Kevin Breitner (09:12.088)
Two more children moved in into this basement apartment. They now had three kids, one adult in the basement in a two bedroom. They fit all fine, but it was more the wear and tear, more than all the utilities. The upstairs tenants were like, well, how are we knowing what’s happening?

Yeah, more baths, more water usage, right? I’m glad that you brought this up because when you do a lease contract, your lease is with the tenant. However, that tenant is allowed to have guests, occupants, or roommates without the landlord’s permission. When you rent out a space, the rent is for the space, not for the amount of people there. The only time that the people become a problem is if

Exactly.

Rob Di Lisi (09:57.034)
it goes against the bylaw. So let’s say on a one bedroom condo, let’s say, argumentally speaking, they only allow two people. Well, if you put 15 people in that one bedroom condominium, yes, that is going to be a bylaw issue. However, is remember they can correct their behavior. So it doesn’t mean that this becomes an evictable thing that they use, that landlord can do. So coming back to your thing about the water,

Unfortunately, as more people come in, kids taking more baths or more showers, unfortunately that it will be a cost and the upstairs tenant will feel that because now their percentage is going higher based on the usage of water.

Yeah, that’s where they got stuck too. In this situation, the upstairs tenants are not actually tenants, they’re landlords, so they understood it. They were just renting out their basement, but there was nothing we could do. I think that would have been more of a conversation I would have had to have for sure if I had two sets of tenants there. So think about that when you’re leases in the future, folks, with stuff like that. If you have multiple properties, multiple families, these things will come into play and will matter whether you’re…

Utilities included or how you ever are dividing that up. So if they’re not all metered separately You’re going to have to figure out how to do these types of things. But that again is a conversation for another day Let’s stay with what we’re doing here with leases and where we are with Landlords and what they want to have happen Can you think of those are the main ones that I’ve come up with that we’ve already discussed? there anything that you can think of Rob that? Comes up where you know again, I guess the you’ve you nailed the other one was people

Right roommates and girlfriends and stuff like that once they come in same as kids. You can’t turn them away But yeah, is there anything else on your mind that we want to

Rob Di Lisi (11:47.512)
There’s one last thing that I see a lot on leases where a landlord or the real estate agent will put in the contract that the tenant is responsible for the first hundred dollars, two hundred dollars worth of repairs or damages to the property. And again, that is illegal under Section 20. It is the landlord’s responsibility. So if an appliance breaks down, it is the landlord’s responsibility to upkeep and repair.

The question that you have to ask is that even if you put it in the contract, how do you enforce it? Now, if the tenant agrees, then you don’t have a problem. It’s when they don’t agree. And again, they talk to a legal rep, they find out their rights. If they paid you X amount of dollars, they’re going to ask for that money back or what they’ll threaten to do is, I’m just going to take it off the next rent payment. So remember, unfortunately, the tenants are in control a lot of the time. All right. So make sure that

No illegal clauses are in your contract. And if they are, just know that the tenant has the right to get information, know their rights, and demand any money or illegal deposits.

Nice. We, we put this in a lot of our, our agreements, just that they notify us within 24 hours of anything breaking. I don’t know if that has any effect. I just want them to tell me right away. It’s just something communication wise, right? That way I can have the ability to get somebody out there to fix something as soon as possible. Like if something breaks and you realize on Monday at three o’clock, but it doesn’t matter to you until Wednesday at three. And then you tell me, because I’m already 48 hours behind pretty much at that point. Right.

And I think a lot of tenants will appreciate that, you’re on top of it, because a lot of times landlords are not on top of it, or property management companies are not on top.

Kevin Breitner (13:37.504)
I can’t say it enough how much I preach that it’s a relationship thing between landlords, tenants, or us and tenants, property managers. As a middleman, as a property manager, it makes such a difference so that people aren’t going back and forth with emotion being involved with a tenant and a landlord, right? I can explain it from both sides. But again, topic for another day, Rob Delisi from Stonegate Legal Services is awesome, and you can reach out to him through their website, stonegatelegalservices.ca.

I don’t know the full number off by heart, but I’ll make sure that it pops up across the screen here. If you’re enjoying these episodes, share them with another Ontario landlord, like, subscribe, all that fun stuff that I think I’m supposed to say during these episodes. But I appreciate you listening and I hope you’re enjoying what we’re putting out there for you. Thanks so much, Rob, for joining us as always. My pleasure. All right, folks, talk to you soon. Bye for now.

Please remember, while we are professionals, this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. The advice shared may not apply to your unique situation. Always seek personalized advice from a qualified professional before making any investment decisions.

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